Comments on: How Come Good Literature Has to be Ruined by Bad Sex? http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/ Maw Books - book reviews, book recommendations, book lists, author interviews and more! Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:43:46 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: deezie http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/#comment-75507 deezie Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:57:29 +0000 http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/water-for-elephants/#comment-75507 What an enlightening thread to read - even if I am late to the party. I now have a framework for presenting my discomfort and lack of appreciation for Sara Gruen's literary aptitude for sexual inclusion in Water for Elephants. Tomorrow night is book group and WfE is the topic - we're very honest with each other and it should be a good discussion. Thanks N and crew What an enlightening thread to read – even if I am late to the party. I now have a framework for presenting my discomfort and lack of appreciation for Sara Gruen’s literary aptitude for sexual inclusion in Water for Elephants. Tomorrow night is book group and WfE is the topic – we’re very honest with each other and it should be a good discussion.
Thanks N and crew

]]> By: john http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/#comment-73803 john Thu, 04 Mar 2010 23:46:46 +0000 http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/water-for-elephants/#comment-73803 This book was recommended to my 14 year old daughter by a school librarian. We scanned through it as parents and are completely appalled. To the guy above that says there is no oral sex...it is quite detailed on page 135, it actually starts on page 133, yes that is 3 pages of explicit sex in one episode. why do i know the page number? because i am trying to have the book banned from high school. I agree books need a rating system, just to preserve our childrens innocense, and that is good reason enough. if a movie, this would definately be an X rating, for the detail in each encounter. Dont give in to the people trying to make you feel bad for the books ratings...it is wrought with the F word and explicit sex, and should say so on the cover. This book was recommended to my 14 year old daughter by a school librarian. We scanned through it as parents and are completely appalled. To the guy above that says there is no oral sex…it is quite detailed on page 135, it actually starts on page 133, yes that is 3 pages of explicit sex in one episode. why do i know the page number? because i am trying to have the book banned from high school. I agree books need a rating system, just to preserve our childrens innocense, and that is good reason enough. if a movie, this would definately be an X rating, for the detail in each encounter. Dont give in to the people trying to make you feel bad for the books ratings…it is wrought with the F word and explicit sex, and should say so on the cover.

]]> By: EJ http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/#comment-51034 EJ Fri, 04 Sep 2009 03:34:06 +0000 http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/water-for-elephants/#comment-51034 I have to respectfully disagree here. I think the way the various sex scenes played out in this book reflect the realities of Jacob's relationships very well. With Barbra, you felt dirty and seedy just reading it, the way Jacob felt, but with Marlena it was handled gently and gracefully - a sign of the difference in that relationship. I think it was a very effective writing mechanism, actually! I have to respectfully disagree here. I think the way the various sex scenes played out in this book reflect the realities of Jacob’s relationships very well. With Barbra, you felt dirty and seedy just reading it, the way Jacob felt, but with Marlena it was handled gently and gracefully – a sign of the difference in that relationship. I think it was a very effective writing mechanism, actually!

]]> By: Angela http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/#comment-35501 Angela Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:23:28 +0000 http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/water-for-elephants/#comment-35501 I read Water for Elephants a few months ago and I found it bothersome, too. Maybe it's because I read so much Christian lit anymore. A sign of a really good book is when I want to read more by that author once I am finished. I haven't found myself searching out anything else by Sara Gruen. I read Water for Elephants a few months ago and I found it bothersome, too. Maybe it’s because I read so much Christian lit anymore. A sign of a really good book is when I want to read more by that author once I am finished. I haven’t found myself searching out anything else by Sara Gruen.

]]> By: Word Lily http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/#comment-33545 Word Lily Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:46:07 +0000 http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/water-for-elephants/#comment-33545 FWIW, I'm with you, Natasha, on this one. I keep asking myself the same question. FWIW, I’m with you, Natasha, on this one. I keep asking myself the same question.

]]> By: Dawn http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/#comment-33533 Dawn Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:09:56 +0000 http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/water-for-elephants/#comment-33533 Natasha - what a lively discussion! I wondered how I missed it the first time around, then finally saw the original time was Jan 2008 (not 2009!) I have seen a few book bloggers who annotate for tolerance of sex, violence, language, etc. I'm not one, but I can see that it's a useful tool when deciding whether or not a book is "for" you. One of the book groups I belong to has a rule about the recommending member having to have read the book before suggesting it to the group. I thought this was an un-needed extra step, but now that you bring it up, I see the value. This is a church-based group, and, although everyone is open-minded, I'd be horrified to recommend an explicit book unaware! As for WFE, I didn't remember the scenes until you pointed them out. I think I tend to skim anything I deem too graphic, unless it detracts too much, in which case I close the book forever :) Natasha – what a lively discussion! I wondered how I missed it the first time around, then finally saw the original time was Jan 2008 (not 2009!)

I have seen a few book bloggers who annotate for tolerance of sex, violence, language, etc. I’m not one, but I can see that it’s a useful tool when deciding whether or not a book is “for” you.

One of the book groups I belong to has a rule about the recommending member having to have read the book before suggesting it to the group. I thought this was an un-needed extra step, but now that you bring it up, I see the value. This is a church-based group, and, although everyone is open-minded, I’d be horrified to recommend an explicit book unaware!

As for WFE, I didn’t remember the scenes until you pointed them out. I think I tend to skim anything I deem too graphic, unless it detracts too much, in which case I close the book forever :)

]]> By: Laura http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/#comment-25001 Laura Mon, 02 Feb 2009 02:37:54 +0000 http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/water-for-elephants/#comment-25001 No problem whatsoever with the description of a head splitting open from the force of a stake being driven through it? But breasts are appalling? Also it basically mentioned the dwarf was masturbating and described the scene. But obscene? Obscene to me would have been describing the way he was stroking it, at what speed, how tightly he was holding it, and what sounds he was making (both orally and with his hand motion). Sex is a part of life (not everyone's of course) and of all the things that ruin books and stories these days, a little sex should be the least of our worries. Sex has the ability to add comedy to life, as well as tragedy and sometimes, if we're lucky, romance and beauty. I see nothing wrong with using that. For instance, the description of rape in Toni Morrison's The Bluest Eye was necessary. Sure it may have made someone squirm, but glossing over it with innuendos would have been the most disgusting thing she could have done. I agree with leaving the sex out only when it's uninteresting, adds nothing to the story or used as a ploy to turn the book in question into porn. Such (in my opinion) was not the case in this book. Not trying to sound angry...just have a strong opinion about this (it's been brought up in a recent book club). No problem whatsoever with the description of a head splitting open from the force of a stake being driven through it? But breasts are appalling? Also it basically mentioned the dwarf was masturbating and described the scene. But obscene? Obscene to me would have been describing the way he was stroking it, at what speed, how tightly he was holding it, and what sounds he was making (both orally and with his hand motion).

Sex is a part of life (not everyone’s of course) and of all the things that ruin books and stories these days, a little sex should be the least of our worries. Sex has the ability to add comedy to life, as well as tragedy and sometimes, if we’re lucky, romance and beauty. I see nothing wrong with using that.

For instance, the description of rape in Toni Morrison’s The Bluest Eye was necessary. Sure it may have made someone squirm, but glossing over it with innuendos would have been the most disgusting thing she could have done.

I agree with leaving the sex out only when it’s uninteresting, adds nothing to the story or used as a ploy to turn the book in question into porn. Such (in my opinion) was not the case in this book.

Not trying to sound angry…just have a strong opinion about this (it’s been brought up in a recent book club).

]]> By: Natasha Maw http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/#comment-23772 Natasha Maw Wed, 21 Jan 2009 04:27:36 +0000 http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/water-for-elephants/#comment-23772 Alyssa - I agree YA isn't very clean anymore either. Alison - It has generated a lot of discussion. I appreciate you mentioning the same thing in your review as well. Alyssa – I agree YA isn’t very clean anymore either.

Alison – It has generated a lot of discussion. I appreciate you mentioning the same thing in your review as well.

]]> By: alisonwonderland http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/#comment-23581 alisonwonderland Mon, 19 Jan 2009 07:00:27 +0000 http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/water-for-elephants/#comment-23581 i've just posted my review. i loved the book but also had a difficult time with the graphic scenes of sexualality. i appreciate you taking a stand on that - and it sure generated some discussion here! i’ve just posted my review. i loved the book but also had a difficult time with the graphic scenes of sexualality. i appreciate you taking a stand on that – and it sure generated some discussion here!

]]> By: Alyssa http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/good-literature-bad-sex/#comment-10535 Alyssa Tue, 09 Sep 2008 01:09:23 +0000 http://blog.mawbooks.com/2008/01/12/water-for-elephants/#comment-10535 Natasha, I know this is a little late to the party, but I wanted to let you know that I also will join you up on that soapbox. The issue of sex in books is originally what drove me to YA books--the romance and relationships without all the sex scenes. But now that isn't even the case anymore. It seems so much harder to find "clean" books in the YA genre as well it seems. Natasha,

I know this is a little late to the party, but I wanted to let you know that I also will join you up on that soapbox. The issue of sex in books is originally what drove me to YA books–the romance and relationships without all the sex scenes. But now that isn’t even the case anymore. It seems so much harder to find “clean” books in the YA genre as well it seems.

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